North Yorkshire Police- Steyr LP50

[AdminMASTER]

Anybody shed some light on the British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC) - yesterday's Thursday Dec.1 meeting outcome ?


Next "meeting" slated for Monday 5 December.

[AdminMASTER]

credit: http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/news/17 ... d-variants

"We have an update for members of the NSRA in regards to Steyr LP50 and Variants - Semi Automatic Air Pistols

Please see below for the full article.

Steyr LP50 and Variants - Semi Automatic Air Pistols

Report from the BSSC Practitioners Group Meeting held on 5th December 2016.

The meeting was chaired by David Coutts - Firearms Licensing Manager, N.Yorkshire. Other police representatives were Firearms Licensing Managers from W. Yorkshire, Avon & Somerset and Police Scotland.

Graham Widdecombe represented The Home Office. BSSC was represented by David Penn - Secretary, supported by representatives from the NSRA, BASC, Countryside Alliance, Scottish Association for Country Sports, HBSA and Gun Trade Association.

The LP50 components seized from Steyr UK followed a routine RFD visit by an FEO. The current position is that Harry Preston has been asked to source spare parts so that those parts plus the seized parts can be sent to NABIS (National Ballistics Intelligence Service) for reassembly and testing. The Home Office saw two issues; is the design self loading or not (if it is, the Home Office will continue to advise that these Steyrs should not be imported or sold), and can the power level be adjusted easily to over 6ft lbs.

NABIS will advise if the pistols are "self loading" or not. The result of this analysis will be sent to David Coutts, Brandon Lewis (Minister responsible for firearms) and BSSC. If this analysis considers the LP50 not to be "self loading" the problem goes away and the Police will not consider them to be Section 5 Firearms.

If, however, NABIS come to the conclusion that LP50's are "self loading" then those seized firearms will remain seized with risk that other Police Forces will follow North Yorkshire's lead. The Home Office hopes to be able to go to the Minister shortly. This is not just about Steyrs, so a decision would have to be taken as to whether this type of air pistol should remain prohibited or the law should be changed.

The general consensus is that the only long term solution is for the law to be clarified. This will not happen as part of the Police and Crime Bill 2016 which is close to its conclusion with Royal Assent due early in 2017. It is more likely to be part of a codification of previous Firearms Acts. However, timescales for this are unknown but it won't be soon.

None of the above is likely to lead to a swift conclusion in our favour.

The point was clearly made that the "law is the law" and this can only be changed by an Act of Parliament or by the Courts.

Opinions can only be tested in a high enough court, which has the power to change the interpretation of the law. Even the NABIS conclusion will only be an "opinion" albeit one which the courts would be unlikely to ignore. The Home Office could take a position, subject to any decision in the courts.

When more information comes available we will let you know.

Ken Nash
Vice Chairman"

[AdminMASTER]

Who is NABIS ???

>> http://www.nabis.police.uk/About-Us

Tel: 0121 626 7114

Email us: nabis@west-midlands.police.uk
https://twitter.com/nabis_uk


NABIS
c/o West Midlands Police
Headquarters, Force Intelligence
PO Box 52,
Lloyd House,
Colmore Circus,
Queensway,
Birmingham
B4 6NQ


>> http://www.nabis.police.uk/Intelligence

"The NABIS Intelligence Cell brings together partners from the National Crime Agency (NCA), UK Border Force (BF), West Midlands Police (WMP), Greater Manchester Police (GMP) and the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS).

The NABIS Intelligence Cell has responsibility for:

Developing, understanding and disseminating strategic and tactical intelligence related to firearms criminality.

NABIS Intellgence CellDeveloping and delivering intelligence products for forces/agencies on a regular basis.

Ensuring that once a ballistic connection has been established, a NABIS intelligence dissemination package is prepared and forwarded to the relevant force/agency.

Producing and disseminating a quarterly intelligence bulletin for forces/agencies which details firearms movements within and between forces, inferred firearms, UKBA recoveries and any incidents/operations of note during the reporting period.

Issuing national problem profiles, officer safety information bulletins and intelligence alerts as and when required.

Tactically the NABIS Intelligence Cell will ensure that once a ballistic connection has been established by one of the NABIS Hubs a dissemination package will be prepared and forwarded to the relevant organisation or organisations.

The NABIS Intelligence Cell will issue a quarterly bulletin to forces and agencies. This strategic report will include information relating to firearms movements within and between forces.

The NABIS Intelligence Cell will periodically issue national problem profiles, officer safety information bulletins and intelligence alerts as and when required."



>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... ce_Service


"The National Ballistics Intelligence Service, or NABIS, is the UK's intelligence service dedicated to managing and providing detailed information regarding firearm-related criminality. The service aims to use its database to store ballistics information about police cases involving firearms, and consequently maintain it for future use and reference. Three new facilities have been created to test and analyse firearms evidence to help link it with other cases.[1] These are based in Birmingham, London and Manchester.[2]

The service was officially launched on 1 April 2008[3] and can be roughly compared to the Integrated Ballistics Identification System operating in America."

Pretty confusing considering: http://library.college.police.uk/docs/a ... _final.pdf

HAS the Steyr LP50 been used in a UK Crime ????

Any vocal UK law abiding citizens who may or may not own an LP50 wish to profer an opinion ?

[AdminMASTER]

unfortunately, no "who's who" running NABIS, except the following..

http://www.nabis.police.uk/news/NABIS-W ... ad-Of-Unit

"10th December 2014
NABIS, the National Ballistics Intelligence Service, is welcoming Detective Chief Superintendent Jo Chilton as its new Head of Unit."

NABIS - Jo CHILTERN.png (264.2 KiB) Viewed 2556 times

[AdminMASTER]

Plenty of inefficiencies in the manner to obtain updates...and no written correspondence ???? Mmmm..

***Free Advice***

1. Get your solicitor to correspond with NYP and NABIS - quoting your reference case # (since they who "seized" the gun & parts will have left you contact names & details etc..) and have your solicitor chase up.

2. Failing any reasonable updates - via your solicitor, there is the option to directly moan to: https://northyorkshire.police.uk/contac ... ain-to-us/

3. If there is still foot dragging from NYP or NABIS - then, feel free to contact your local Member of Parliament directly or via your solicitor > https://www.parliament.uk/biographies/c ... turdy/4079

NABIS.png (14.15 KiB) Viewed 2556 times

[AdminMASTER]

Update

...dont know when they posted below message...

PS: Is NABIS also known as "Royal Armouries" -

Mini update: per PM from a forum member - am being sarcastic... no idea unless you call the UK agent for an explanation why NABIS has handed it over to Royal Armouries...to consult a Museum and their gun experts ..which ironically includes someone called Mr. David Penn, the GTA Secretary who was part of that infamous GTA mass warning...hardly impartial so I suppose a good lawyer could challenge the Royal Armouries findings (if in negative) AND to find out if Mr. Penn was part of the committee "examining" the LP50 action and publishing it's findings...

NABIS or NYP could simply have requested Steyr Sports Austria, and or German or Austrian Law enforcement to send over their legal interpretations of the LP50 and or H5A mechanism in their respective home countries... correct Neither of these are banned in ANY EURO COUNTRY...tells you something...

Intrigued ? read this - NB: Robin C has got the most common sense - http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php ... -section-5

[AdminMASTER]

credit: https://royalarmouries.org/leeds/

>> https://royalarmouries.org/about-us

"The Royal Armouries is the United Kingdom’s national museum of arms and armour, and one of the most important museums of its type in the world.

We have a long history, dating back to the Middle Ages. Our celebrated core collection originated in the nation’s working arsenal, which was assembled over many centuries at the Tower of London.

The Royal Armouries are heir to one of the oldest deliberately created visitor attractions in the country. Objects were being arranged for display to visitors as early as Queen Elizabeth’s reign in the 16th century.

Our collection of about 75,000 items – excluding approximately 2,700 loans to other bodies – is now displayed and housed in our historical home at the White Tower in the Tower of London but also at our purpose-built museum in Leeds, and at Fort Nelson near Portsmouth.

Since 2005, the museum has also managed the national collection of firearms, started in 1631 by Charles I and assembled by the British Army, now housed at the National Firearms Centre.

The Royal Armouries was established in its present form by the National Heritage Act (1983) and is a Non-Departmental Public Body (NDPB) sponsored by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. In 2015-16, it received £7,103,000 in Grant in Aid, £1,368,000 from commercial activity and £783,000 from donations and sponsorship. It currently employs 183 staff and receives nearly 2 million visitors a year across the three sites, who, except at the Tower of London, visit for free."

[AdminMASTER]

credit: https://royalarmouries.org/about-us/people

>>> https://royalarmouries.org/about-us/peo ... david-penn

David Penn was a director of both GTA and BSSC when that notice went out at the time...and works as a consultant at Royal Armouries but is also now with BASC ???

You're having a LARF

See Posting #10 or attachment

[AdminMASTER]

Who are the idiots and Morons ?

Let them eat cow manure

Dont name them publicly...just whisper their names to one another ...

So BUY FROM EUROPE and save where possible £££ !!!

[BenGun]

Don't forget the Hunting 5 Semi auto, you can buy that now as well.